Dont Play the Ohio Players Again
*If the Ohio Players were to record an album in the near future, in the fine tradition of classics past such as Pain, Pleasure, Ecstasy, Fire, Honey, Contradiction. Angel and Gilded, this i could very well exist titled…Survival. On the horizontal gatefold outside cover, imagine a boldly beautiful Black soldier-ette, sweat-drenched and mud-caked in a uniform barely covering her essentials having crawled to the top of a hill in boxing carrying a sacred flag on her back to place as a milestone marker high on a mountaintop.
Now imagine a vertical within gatefold of this soldier-ette standing proudly on elevation of this hill, having plunged her flag pole into the earth, her hair spilling from nether her headband whipping wildly in the air current as she makes a provocative, triumphant stance of victory. Those images could very well stand for the 50+ years of glory and tragedy surrounding one of the most universally gifted bands to ever record and tour at the service of music.
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In the pair of interviews that follow, prolific Los Angeles-based music journalist A. Scott Galloway rapped with Ohio Players James "Diamond" Williams and Billy Beck in advance of a Sat, February 12 concert at Toyota Stadium in Ontario, CA (also featuring Joe Bataan, Barbara Mason, The Temprees, Mayer Hawthorne and more) nearly what it has taken for the band that brought the world timeless Black Pool of Genius classics such as "Skin Tight," "Heaven Must Be Similar This," "I Want to Be Complimentary," "Dearest Rollercoaster" and "Sweet Mucilaginous Thing" to survive to 2022 and all the same be at the summit of their musical game at a time when then many other bands of their era are extinct, struggling or faking the funk.
Scott: Diamond, my friend, I'd like to start this conversation reminiscing on our brother Robin Russell, amazing drummer of The New Birth/Nite-Liters bands of the `70s who passed away suddenly concluding year. How do you lot call up him?
Diamond: He was a great guy. When both of us were on the route, nosotros used to meet up in hotel rooms and hallways …beatin' on the flooring, actin' crazy havin' a practiced fourth dimension! His decease was really a surprise. More recently when the Players were out on the west coast, he came to a couple of our gigs. I would always hit him on Facebook and otherwise just to stay in tune with what was going on. Nosotros used to talk frivolously about the crazy stuff we did back then. I didn't talk too much personally about what was going on in his life. I did know that he did that park thing. (Author's Note: Robin regularly prepare and played his drums in the aforementioned spot for twenty years in Griffith Park for recreation and, likely, some personal therapy). I was kind of envious of him to be able to get to a park and play in nature like that. I idea, 'Wow that must be great!' Now, I was NOT envious of him setting up and trigger-happy downwards all those drums all the time, I'll tell you that! (laughter)
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Scott: Sadly, Robin's feel in New Nativity does non mirror yours in the Ohio Players. Fifty-fifty at New Birth'southward peak, they never played outside of the country, there were ability struggles, bitter feuds, which I know the Ohio Players experienced, too. Just by the mid-`80s, New Birth as a band ceased to be. The version that travels now is ii atomic number 82 singers accompanied by backing musicians. So, in that location was no long-standing band to rally around Robin – concern-wise or personal-wise. Their members all scattered. This brings me to what I want to focus on with yous today. How were the Ohio Players able to survive into such a thriving infinite today – through all of the hurdles ALL of the archetype Blackness Bands of The `70s had to face and/or not get over?
Diamond: Where we are today is being very blessed. To be able to practise what we do. It'due south non an easy thing. The loma that nosotros had to climb to go hither was a tough ane and a high one where our popularity in the world is concerned and releasing new music is concerned. That time seems to have almost come up to a close. Yet we all the same accept the ability to play the music that people remember and love. And we play it quite well. This year marks 50 years of me beingness with the ring starting with its third Westbound album, Ecstasy (1972).
Scott: What have the most hard challenges been for you at present equally leader of this band later on and so many band fellow member changes?
Diamond: You lot have to climb inside yourself and enquire, "What tin can I do with the life I take been given?" The answer is being determined to do information technology, expecting everything to increase in your abilities to do it, and your desire to want to do it. If you lose your desire, everything is basically gone.
Just take COVID. xviii months of inactivity in this business organization has been very critical and upsetting. But yous tin can't lose your desire to want to become out and face the public once again. At the very fourth dimension that we were restarting this ring (after a lull from the late `70s into early `80s), there were no other entities. Sugarfoot (legendary pb singer/guitarist/songwriter Leroy "Sugarfoot" Bonner of the Afro and the "Owwww"), Billy Beck, myself and Chet Willis (longtime 2nd guitarist) got back together at first only to help 'Sugar' with his solo album, Sugar Kiss (Warner Bros. – 1985). At commencement, Sugar submitted an album that the company rejected, which brought the rest of u.s. back on board to assist him. Other than the songs Saccharide co-wrote with Roger Troutman, well-nigh of the other stuff wasn't working. And so, we helped him with some writing and that brought us back together. We decided to become the Ohio Players again, tape and tour.
At that place was a lilliputian entity of another ring going around here (locally in Ohio) calling itself the Ohio Players that consisted of a guy named Ronnie Hoard who adopted my nickname, "Diamond." The iv of usa paid him a lil' visit, told him, "Do Not utilise our proper noun anymore….and Do Not permit united states accept to knock on your door again!" And that was that.
Then we connected on and, Scott, information technology was hard, man. When you have been to the mount tiptop, and seen the hills and valleys from higher up, and then maintain that level of altitude for a period of time – to become back to ground zero and say, 'Where do nosotros get from Here' is a huge thing. It can cause people to lose their minds. We had to make up one's mind if we actually wanted to practice this. As the manager of this band, I said, "Y'all know what we demand to do? Nosotros to go somewhere where we can play as much as nosotros need to play to go our act together."
So, myself, Sugarfoot, Robert Nooks (keys), Chet, Darwin Dortch (bass) and Robert Kuumba (percussion) went to Japan for 6 weeks playing a society chosen The Bird (in Yokohama) every bit a petty workshop to get ourselves back together. We'd do 2 shows a night, half dozen days a week. Practice makes perfect. So, we have become BETTER from that point to today. Nosotros recorded one album, Back, for Track Records (in Seattle) in 1988 (their labelmates were the Boilerplate White Band). Simply we lost ourselves trying to become electronic. The Ohio Players is not an electronic band. When you hear electronics on my drums, we have a trouble. Then, although the songs on that anthology were absolutely marvelous (sites "Permit'south Play" and "Just to Evidence My Love"), the production was lacking.
It's tough being our age. Information technology'due south tough going back and forth with record companies, concert promoters, There'southward a lot of work involved that customarily I wouldn't be involved with. But things change and this was the season for u.s.a. to have to weather all of that. Simply all along we knew in our hearts that we wanted to go along on. Nosotros started playing gigs around the U.S. – pocket-sized places – but we were building dorsum our momentum and on a roll. I'thou telling you; I had the biggest snowball getting ready to roll downwardly the loma until COVID hit ii years ago. BAM. My snowfall melted, Scott. The yr earlier COVID, was our best twelvemonth on the road in 25 years!
Scott: I always say this, there is cipher like a tight band with a sack full of hits. And I never marginalize you as a 'Funk ring.' Ohio Players music incorporates R&B, Jazz, Dejection, Gospel, Rock and Funk. Though I was too young to encounter you in the `70s, one time you all started back, I saw you everywhere – The Strand, The Coconut Teazer, The L.A. Street Scene, The Greek Theater, Vault 350 and more. Most recently, I saw y'all murder the oversupply on a smoothen jazz show at The Hollywood Basin! And I saw you lot on the "Soul Railroad train Cruise" a few years back. Every bit just a rhythm department initially so later when your budget allowed for the return of a horn section, 'The Players' were always such a funky delight…which his why I kept on coming yr afterward year.
Diamond: I appreciate that, Scott. Nosotros devoted ourselves to creating a style that incorporates all styles of music. Some people don't appreciate that. Aye, nosotros wrote R&B and Funk hits, but we wrote Pop hits, likewise. And we deliberately wrote them… because we wanted to. We didn't luck up on that. We decided, 'nosotros're going to write us a Pop hitting!' We wrote ballads that I believe are incredible. The Ohio Players are truly players. We don't accept any triggers. We don't have annihilation existence sung or played that'due south not on stage. Nosotros're 1 of the few bands truly doing everything live.
Nosotros wrote 3 platinum albums in a row (Skin Tight, Burn and Beloved – Mercury – 1974-1975). Nosotros should take had plenty coin to last usa forever. We didn't know… Merely as musicians, we pushed ourselves to co-operative out and show some of our other artistic ability. We couldn't predict that our popularity would drop off to the point of non having a hit record. But there comes a period in an artist's life when you'd like to have the full sum of your abilities accepted.
Our songs always had a concept or theme. The verses went together with the bridge, the rhythm and the horns were correct where they needed to be, and the whole packet was swell – down to our album covers. We were a complete band. And nosotros did information technology ALL ourselves – no outside producer. We're very proud of it.
Scott: While I hate that the cruise you were supposed to play this month was postponed, I'k relieved because I did not want you lot all to get sick. I've been to nightclubs, house parties and motion picture theaters – masked, 'vaxed,' socially-distanced and hand-sanitized. But you will non catch me in an airport, on an aeroplane or on a cruise ship…for the time being.
Diamond: I concord. I'g not interested in being on a floating petri dish, Scott. But I'll tell you what. We do need the piece of work.
Scott: What did you lot do to make a living while the country was shut down?
Diamond: As artists, we used that fourth dimension to write. Nosotros fed off all these emotions from the general public…watching news broadcasts…seeing people crying and going crazy… And so we made songs virtually it. The other thing I have been doing is writing a book and working on a movie. The book is about my life and upbringing. The movie is about the Ohio Players. Billy, Merv (o.thou. ring trombonist Marvin Pierce) and I are putting our memoirs together.
I'g as well energetic to simply sit down around the firm, swallow potable and be merry. I've got other things of importance. For i, I have two daughters: Schele Williams, a Broadway Director for Disney in New York, wrote an acclaimed children's book titled "Legacy." It's a New York Times bestseller dealing with Black people and our legacies. She'due south working with Dwayne Wade and Gabrielle Union to turn information technology into an animated characteristic. She's working on a Nelson Mandela project in Europe. And she'due south working on bringing the motion-picture show "Hidden Figures" to Broadway. She also gave me 2 granddaughters!
My youngest girl Anji here in Dayton is the homo resources director of seven medical facilities. She hires and fires doctors and whatnot! She gave me three grandsons. She'due south very knowledgeable and kept her daddy tight around her arm, making sure I didn't even get out the house during COVID. My wife and I were very well protected.
Scott: You and Billy could retire living off of royalties. What virtually the band?
Diamond: Well, the ring is no longer in one primal location like the originals were in Ohio. Two alive in Atlanta, ii alive in Chicago, two are in Youngstown and the rest of us alive in Dayton. Then just at soundchecks are we able to practice. Just we stay in communication. As you say, guys gotta eat. And all of them are non as financially situated every bit I happen to be. And so, they've done what they had to do – some using their music craft, others getting second jobs. And the keyboard players e'er discover churches to play in. Almost of the clubs have been close downward so that's more inactivity. We were also able to file for unemployment which helped. We use the resources that are out here for us and just concur on…like everybody else.
When things finally did open a little, we got v gigs in. And on the 12th of February, we accept a testify in Ontario, California. Then nosotros're doing "The Ultimate Disco Cruise" when it's rescheduled.
Scott: I imagine sampling and song licensing has been very lucrative for the original members.
Diamond: It has been very lucrative. As I said before, we played, wrote and produced all of our stuff. And Satch (former leader/saxophonist Clerence Satchell) was intelligent enough to concord on to our publishing and writer's rights…though he also made sure to hold on to a college percent of it for himself. That has provided us the ability to be during this betoken in time. The Toyota RAV4 commercial used "Fire" and paid united states of america quite well. I almost could accept bought a RAV4 after that! I certain was lookin'! (laughter)
Scott: I must acknowledge that Ester Cordet, (the gorgeous model for the Grammy-winning anthology comprehend of the Ohio Players' Honey), merely celebrated her 75th birthday. Have you ever encountered her since you immortalized her?
Diamond: Yes, we saw her a couple of years back at the Blue Annotation Club in Hawaii. She's taken really adept care of herself and looked really good. She enjoyed the bear witness and, of course, nosotros took a moving-picture show with her.
Scott: And I must ask your thoughts on the passing last month of Greg Webster, the drummer of the Ohio Players who preceded you and later authored the book "The Truthful Story of the Ohio Players" (Daysville Publishing – 2001).
Diamond: Well, of form, I take sympathy for his death. I had admiration for him as a drummer for perfecting the shuffle beat. He helped showtime everything and and then I jumped on board. Then, there's definitely respect for that. We were cordial with each other over the years but I never really had a personal relationship with him.
The occasion of me replacing him happened one time when he had become sick and the band needed a quick replacement for that engagement. (Trombonist) Marvin Pierce, who I had played with in the band The Overnight Low (later Sun) along with Chet Willis reached out to me to see if I was available. Of grade, I was. I had the opportunity to see Greg play about a twelvemonth before that. I remember telling my married woman that if I ever got a chance to replace him, I would take his chore. And that's exactly what happened. After I sat in with them at that nightclub in Milwaukee, the band went to meet Greg in the hospital where he was and told him his services were no longer needed. Greg had been the leader of the ring at that time. So, it wasn't but like replacing any former ring member. I replaced the leader of the Ohio Players.
Scott: How close are the Ohio Players to having new music in the marketplace?
Diamond: Scott, it is so tremendously difficult to ante up what y'all need to accept just to get a tape heard today. The dilemma is money. For some things, we have taken money out of our ain pockets to do. Nosotros also tried the crowdfunding situation simply could not get enough people involved to want to hear practiced Ohio Players music again. This business has changed and then much. Lyrics now go nowhere and tune lines are contrary to the doggone key a vocal is in! I'm genuinely interested to know how many people really miss hearing good music. In my humble opinion, in that location's not enough who volition financially assistance a ring like ours to be able to produce and promote such a tape.
Nosotros released one vocal a few years dorsum chosen "Reset" that toll united states of america roughly $40-50,000 to brand…simply to find that we actually needed about $200,000 to make a divergence. We've got some neat songs just where are the people? I am 71 years old now, Scott. So, I've had to realize our place in the manufacture today.
Scott: I believe if yous invest your money into producing and manufacturing a great new Ohio Players album – from the music to the anthology cover – sold it equally vinyl and/or CDs at your shows where you would sign them subsequently for fans, y'all should do well without going the radio/satellite routes. What can Southern California fans await at the Players' pre-Super Bowl show this weekend?
Diamond: The Ohio Players are now a 10-slice band: Billy and Odean Mays (keys, voice), Darwin Dortch on bass, myself on drums, Kenny Anderson (trumpet) Mike Turner (tenor/alto sax) and Johnny Cotton (os) and THREE GUITARS: Chet Willis, Christopher Bowman and Edward Rick Ward. Nosotros just put "FOPP" back into the set and we're gonna take guitars screamin' at you like CRAZY! FOPP is comin' back on the Rock side, Scott – you own't gonna believe it!
- Scott Galloway Interviews Baton Beck of the Ohio Players
Scott: What is your perspective on the longevity of the Ohio Players?
Billy: The primary matter is that when we set up out to write, we all were having fun. We wanted to write songs that showed that we were having fun and give that fun back to the people. And we wanted to write proficient songs, Cuz good songs will stand the test of fourth dimension. That is the master secret for longevity in this business.
Scott: Speak to the commitment you had to have to notwithstanding be here.
Baton: The commitment of the group is nosotros've ever been like a family. These brothers are my family unit when I am not at home. We all feel that same way well-nigh each other. At that place is a bond there deeper than the music. We care nigh each other and our families. Nosotros dear working together. And we beloved doing what we exercise.
Scott: You and Diamond are the longest-standing members of the Ohio Players…and neither of you is actually an o.one thousand. not even originals. What did it hateful to you to get this gig dorsum in `73?
Billy: Oh, it meant everything to me because I was an Ohio Players fan. I studied their music. Initially, I was sitting in for them for simply ane weekend. Nosotros did ane evidence in Louisville KY with Al Greenish as the headliner. I asked Satch, 'O.M., where'southward my ticket home?" He said, "Yous ain't goin' dwelling house…"
Scott: Were you the immediate keyboardist to follow legendary Junie Morrison?
Billy: No. A lot of people tried out for that gig but they just didn't piece of work out, See, every time they came to Youngstown, Ohio, I was at that place playing in the opening act but it was always with a unlike ring. I was the same guy playing keyboards. I was a teenager when I got with the Ohio Players – 19. I arrived on Skin Tight once they had moved to Mercury Records.
Scott: Did y'all take any kind of a relationship with Junie?
Billy: Yes, I knew him very well and told him I admired his work. We had swell conversations nearly music. I call up Junie graduated high school in `68 or `69. I graduated in `72. When I got the gig, nobody actually had heard of me. Junie had moved on with his solo career on Westbound (later joining Funkadelic). And then, I believe he – and most people actually – felt similar, 'This guy ain't gonna last long.' Until they turned me loose in the studio for the Skin Tight sessions…and their whole sound changed. At kickoff, Junie was like, 'Who is this child?' After a moment, Junie and I had common respect.
Scott: When practice y'all feel that R Due east S P E C T kicked in?
Billy: After the Ohio Players got their offset Gold and Platinum albums. Up until that time, they only had ane Gold 45: 'Funky Worm' (1972).
Scott: I understand you had a close relationship with "Sugarfoot?"
Billy: In the hungry days, nosotros used to slumber 2 to a room. 'Sugar' had peculiar ways… He wasn't very talkative and could have a kinda hateful disposition. So, nobody actually wanted to room with him. Me being the youngest, I got saddled with him! Sugar was my roommate on the route. When we started talking about music, that's when he was more talkative. So we had deep conversations virtually everything.
I come up from the church, I started playing when I was four. I was taken under the wing of Professor George Bretz of Youngstown Country University and Schoolhouse of Music when I was viii. He kept me under his wing until I graduated high school. So, I was classically trained…and eons ahead of everybody else. When I was in the 11th grade, I was offered a full-ride scholarship to Central State. I didn't take it because didn't want to leave home. And my mom definitely didn't want me to get.
Scott: However 1 yr later, you were in the Ohio Players! I imagine she'd be more afraid of you going on the route than going abroad to school!
Billy: Aye, well, Satch reassured her that the group would have care of me.
When I start got in the group, I didn't know anybody. I was staying at Satch's house in his invitee sleeping room. Diamond came past, picked me upward and showed me around Dayton. Then he took me to meet his family. Nosotros really bonded that day. Our bail has been like that ever since. We've weathered the storms of existence together and not together over the years. Notwithstanding we've outlasted other bands that stayed together for any duration…and nosotros're still here to talk about it.
As the Musical Director of the Ohio Players, I insist that we sound as shut as possible to the original records. I volition fine people for not sounding like the record. I have that from the school of James Brown.
Scott: Seeing you come back to the fold thrilled my heart. I could clearly discern that you carried the keys to the hitmaking Ohio Players audio. Notwithstanding, I must say that Sugarfoot's Ohio Players (in the 2000s) were strong. I saw them at a casino only exterior of Palm Springs AND at the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival. Those young bloods were NO JOKE. What did you think of them?
Baton: I met Sugarfoot's Ohio Players every time they came to Cleveland, I'd go to the testify, let them know I was at the gate and get a backstage pass. I came up on stage once. They wanted me to play but I said, "No, I want to sing." And so, I did…and didn't tell Sugar ahead of time. He didn't know I was coming. He was very happy to see me. And I was very happy to see him.
Any the rift was, it was between Sugar and Diamond. My thing was none of u.s.a. are getting any younger. Forgot all these rifts! Let's get together and do what we did. Nosotros never know when it'due south our turn. The only One who knows when it'due south your time is God.
Scott: What really happened near the end earlier Sugarfoot passed?
Billy: When Sugar was really sick, their bass histrion Trey kept calling me considering he wanted me to come up on the route with them. I hadn't gotten dorsum together with Diamond and the Players even so. I said, "I desire to hear it from Saccharide. If he calls me and says he wants me to come up back, I'll come." How did I know he was ill with cancer and dying? He kept that strictly to himself. I told you he had peculiar means.
Scott: What a wishbone you must have felt like with Diamond and Sugar gently tugging on you from both ends…
Billy: That was a decision hang-up… Well, I never got a call from Sugar and so I stayed doing what I was doing which was playing for the church, I stayed out of the manner and kept writing… I'm always writing… I tin't assist it.
Afterwards Sugar passed, Diamond personally called me and asked me to come up back. He said, "If there was ever anything that I did or said to you, permit that be in the by. Let's just go frontwards." That was proficient enough for me. I came dorsum with no hesitation.
Scott: And the legacy of Black Music is all the meliorate for it. What do you love nigh about being dorsum?
Billy: What I really beloved is our fans. They played our music around their kids who grew up and played information technology around their kids. That's how they know who we are. So, I appreciate all of them.
A. Scott Galloway is a prolific Music Announcer based in Los Angeles. Last year for Black Music Month, he composed a similar in-depth interview with Bay Surface area Soul legends Tower of Power band members Emilio Castillo, David Garibaldi and Stephen "Doc" Kupka for EUR. Click hither to read.
Source: https://eurweb.com/2022/02/09/ohio-players-survival-a-50-year-soul-sojourn-an-eurweb-exclusive/
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